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anaxagoras ♡ 49 ( +1 | -1 )
1. e4 c6 2. f4 anyone else seen this? I suspect that after black's normal 2. d5 would follow 3. e5, then if ...Bf5 4. g4 with problems on the kingside for black. After looking it over I decided on 2...e5, a sham gambit, for 3. f4xe5 Qa4+ would be decisive. White can continue with 3. Nf3 e5xf4 etc.

1. e4 c6 2. f4 e5 3. Nf3 e5xf4 would seem to lead to a gambit style version of the two knights variation of the caro-kann. Thoughts? The open e-file and black's unrestricted king's bishop make for some important tactical differences, of course.
gambitnut ♡ 15 ( +1 | -1 )
That gambit ... ... is just the King's Gambit with the strange c6. I play f4 with the intention of waiting for black to play c5 and then playing the Wing Gambit.
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anaxagoras ♡ 11 ( +1 | -1 )
1. e4 c6 is strange? Why would black play c5 instead of d5 after c6 has already been played on the second move?
gambitnut ♡ 15 ( +1 | -1 )
No ... ... but 1. e4 e5 2. f4 exf4 3. Nf3 c6 is!

I was thinking of soemthing more along the lines of 1. e4 c6 2. f4 d5 3. e5 Bf5 4. Nf3 c5 5. b4 or 1. e4 c6 2. f4 d5 3. e5 Bf5 4. Nf3 e6 5. d3 c5 6. b4, I'm not sold on the idea though, the Caro-Kann is one of the hardest openings for me to find a response to.
caldazar ♡ 56 ( +1 | -1 )
Your idea looks fine to me and ...c6 helps prepare ...d5, so I would imagine you'd want to play this somewhat like the Modern line in the King's Gambit (e.g. 1. e4 c6 2. f4 e5 3. Nf3 exf4 4. d4 d5). Probably about equal.

However, I don't see that 1. e4 c6 2. f4 d5 poses much of a problem either. Even after 3. e5 Bf5, if White goes in for an early 4. g4, then 4... Be4 5. Nf3 with a solid position. Of course, it's unlikely that Black will want to castle kingside (if at all), but he has a lot of natural moves at his disposal (...e6, ...Be7, ...Nd7, ...Qc7/b6, ...h5), a solid position, and even some counterplay against White's extended kingside.
peppe_l ♡ 164 ( +1 | -1 )
Plus Further problem of too early f4, Black can soon play h5! and force white to choose between closing kingside with g5 or opening h-file for Rh8 with gxh5 (or after hxg4). Either way, black gets a good game.

These "agressive" kingside pawn advances might look powerful, but in most cases they are simply premature and black has more than sufficient antidotes in his disposal. For example,

1.e4 c6 2.d4 d5 3.e5 Bf5 4.g4!? Be4 5.f3 Bg6 6.h4? (it is best to offer a pawn with 6.e6!? when black can decline with 6...Qd6! 7.exf7+ Bxf7, with unclear position) h5! and black is better (ECO gives =/+). He has already stopped the early advance! After white kingside has turned static and weak black can start his usual queenside play with c5 etc.

So, back to 2.f4

1.e4 c6 2.f4 d5 3.e5 Bf5 4.g4 Be4 5.Nf3 e6 6.d3 (6.d4 h5! again, black can play Bxf3 whenever he wants) Bxf3 7.Qxf3 h5!

Putting an end to the premature attack. I am very happy if I can have this position as black :-)

If white plays something else like 4.d4 or 4.Nf3, black gets a very good Advance position where white has wasted time for making Bc1 weak(!) Bold statement I know, but the fact is f4 lacks purpose! There is no real danger of kingside pawn storm (black can always play h5 and even g6) and he can develop the pieces in usual way and play c5 etc.

Maybe after 2.f4 d5 there are other options, but compared to Caro-Kann lines where white plays f4 later, black will have more options when f4 has been played in move two!

Still, maybe 3.Nc3 is worth trying? I remember Keiserpaul showing some fairly interesting lines.

keiserpaul ♡ 50 ( +1 | -1 )
peppe_l I get this position on the board via another move move sequence (1.Nc3 d5 2.e4 c6 3.f4). The main line goes 3. .. dxe4 4.Nxe4 Nf6 5.Nf2 with Nf3 following (p.e. 5. .. e6 6.Nf3). The further plan is g2-g3, Bg2 , 0-0 after which the situation is called equal, but White has a solid position, firm control of the central point e5, and has not committed the placement of his queensidepawns (but normally b3 and Bb2 are in the air). One example :
Soetewey,S - Ohlzon,N [B10]
Hallsberg opJ Hallsberg, 1993
1.Nc3 d5 2.e4 c6 3.f4 dxe4 4.Nxe4 Nf6 5.Nf2 e6 6.Nf3 Nbd7 7.g3 b6 8.Bg2 Bb7 9.b3 c5 10.Bb2 Be7 11.0-0 0-0 12.Re1 Rc8 13.Qe2 Re8 14.Bh3 Bf8 15.Nd3 Qc7 16.Nde5 Nxe5 17.Nxe5 Rcd8 18.g4 Nd7 19.Nd3 Qd6 20.Nf2 b5 21.d3 Nb6 22.c4 a6 23.g5 Nc8 24.Ng4 Ne7 25.Nf2 Nf5 26.Ne4 Nd4 27.Qf2 e5 28.f5 Bc8 29.Re3 Qc7 30.Rg3 Bb7 31.Bg2 Bxe4 32.Bxe4 Qd6 33.Bd5 Qc7 34.g6 Re7 35.Rh3 h6 36.Rf1 Kh8 37.f6 gxf6 38.Qxf6+ Kg8 39.gxf7+ Kh7 40.Be4+ 1-0

peppe_l ♡ 32 ( +1 | -1 )
Ok thanks How about 5.Nxf6? Has it been played? As black I would propably play Nbd7 or e6 before Nf6, transposing to the line you gave. To be honest I am not sure whether I like b6-Bb7 that much, I suppose developing in the style of Smyslov variation (Nd7, Ngf6, e6, Bd6/Be7, 0-0) would give black solid and approximately equal position?
keiserpaul ♡ 68 ( +1 | -1 )
5.Nxf6 is not to my taste (I prefer open lines above good pawn structures. But I know the majority of other players don't agree ). Black can attack earlier. I found only one game :
Herzog,O - Unen,H [B10]
EM/H/008 ICCF Email
1.Nc3 d5 2.e4 c6 3.f4 dxe4 4.Nxe4 Nf6 5.Nxf6+ gxf6 6.c3 Bf5 7.Ne2 Bd3 8.Qb3 b6 9.Nd4 Bxf1 10.Rxf1 c5 11.Ne2 Rg8 12.Rf2 Qd3 13.Ng3 Nc6 14.Rf3 Qd7 15.d3 h5 16.Re3 h4 17.Ne4 0-0-0 18.Qc2 Bh6 19.Rh3 Rg4 20.Qe2 Bxf4 21.Bxf4 Rxf4 22.0-0-0 Qe6 23.g3 hxg3 24.hxg3 Rg4 25.Qg2 Qxa2 26.Nxc5 Rd5 27.Ne4 Ne5 28.Nf2 Rb5 29.Kd2 Rxb2+ 30.Ke1 Ra4 31.Kf1 Qb3 32.Qa8+ Kc7 33.Re1 Qxc3 34.Qd5 Rxf2+ 35.Kxf2 Nxd3+ 0-1

About Nbd7 , yes this is played very often (but not as much as Nf6) and most of these games result in the way you're suggesting. 4.Nxe4 Nd7 5.Nf3 Ngf6 6.Nf2 e6 7.b3 Bd6 seem to be the main (= most played) line. A very drawish line when I look at the results of these games.
loreta ♡ 37 ( +1 | -1 )
No experience Interesting thead... Unfortunately, it did not happen to me play this variation, so I've not to say anything about it.
Anyway, every move in opening has its own (far seeking) purpose, as example - c6 of CK seeks to make a pressure to e4 field... So advocates of 2. f4 could explain far seeking idea of that move (or it's only for expanding kingside and demonstrating activity - just waiting for weak play of black?)